Hello, dear visitors of the site “Visiting Samodelkin “. Today I want to talk about how I made a heating system in a private house that I am reconstructing.
If someone is not interested in subtleties and details, you can watch the video. In it I, a little more succinctly, talk about what I got:
Before designing a heating system, I formulated for myself the main points that I want to implement.
Firstly, the system must be combined – heating must be done by floor heating, but, in addition, every room must also have a radiator! After all, if the winter turns out to be frosty (although it has not been like this for a long time), then in order to maintain a comfortable temperature in the room with only a warm floor, it will be necessary to greatly increase its temperature, which may not be comfortable.
Secondly, the system must be compact. The house is not big, and I don't want to “litter” the premises with pipes and manifold cabinets! All elements, including radiators, must be placed in niches under the windows (Fortunately, the walls in the house are very thick), the pipes must also be hidden, and the gas boiler must be placed in the kitchen so that it later hides in the wall cabinet, together with the elements of its “strapping”.
And, finally, the main requirement – each room should be able to adjust the room temperature and the temperature of the floor surface.
I will dwell on the latter in more detail … When designing combined heating systems, one difficulty arises – how to supply a coolant with different temperatures to radiators and floors ?. Indeed, in the radiators, for their normal operation, you need to apply at least 70 degrees! And in the floors – a maximum of 40! … There are special boilers for this, which have an additional circuit. But they are rare and very expensive …
As a rule, the problem is solved by assembling the so-called mixing unit (picture taken from the Internet):
In it, the pump drives the coolant in a circle in the underfloor heating circuits, and the three-way valve with a thermostatic head mixes in hot coolant as it cools.
But this scheme did not suit me for many reasons. Firstly (and most importantly) I wanted to do floor management in every room !! After all, for example, I want the floor in the kitchen, or in the bathroom, to be perceptibly warm, and, at the same time, it is more convenient for me in the bedroom, so that it is simply “comfortable temperature”. And it will not be very inconvenient for this to go somewhere where a closet with a knot is installed and turn some valves, remembering which circuits (and how many) go into the bedroom, and which ones go to the bathroom)))). And, anyway, after all, I cannot do it exclusively for one room – “on the way to the desired one”, they will also heat the floor. If, for example, the cabinet is in the corridor, then all contours should diverge from it, according to this “ray scheme”. My house is not big – there are only eleven contours. But, even so, twenty-two pipes will depart from the cabinet !!! They will occupy the entire corridor. And the collector cabinet itself will not be weak in size. But you need to find a place where he will not interfere, and he will not be forced to furniture ! And, I am already silent about the fact that my wife, who arranges a showdown for me because I planned an outlet in a conspicuous place, and not where it does not catch the eye, well, will not tolerate an ugly (from her point of view) huge door in the wall. She will absolutely want to hide it behind some furniture, because, “it is better to let it be, and then I don't need any adjustments!”))))
“Having smoked this topic” for a long time, I learned about another way to adjust the temperature of floor heating – through the so-called RTL thermostatic heads.
They look very similar to ordinary thermostatic heads, which are installed on radiators, but differ from them in the principle of operation. A conventional head “reads readings” from the air, and RTL – from the coolant. That is, boiling water can be pumped through a valve with a conventional head as much as you like, but it will not close the valve until the air temperature in the room reaches the value set for it.
Erteelka works the other way around – it can be in icy air, but as soon as a coolant passes through the valve, the temperature of which is higher than the set one, it will close the valve!
So I decided to use them in every room.
= “aligncenter” alt = “Do-it-yourself heating system of a private house” src = “https://usamodelkina.ru/uploads/posts/2020-12/1609055164_regulyator-ogranichitel-temperatury-kran-rtl-pryamoy-1-2-herz_5ebdf2e9742c590_800x600 .png “/> As a result, I made myself heating with the requirements that I had originally laid down.
And for this I needed:
1. Gas boiler. (In my case – “IMMERGAS EOLO MYTHOS 24 4R” Dual-circuit, turbocharged.). When choosing a brand, I was guided by the reviews, the warranty period and the presence in my city of the official representative of the manufacturer. When choosing a model – good quality (relative, of course) and the absence of unnecessary bells and whistles, such as weather-dependent automation and other things (Well, I'm such a person that I don't even like cars with an automatic transmission! I like to manage the situation myself)))) Besides, it was this model that was just “dumped” by the manufacturer, and I, having bought it from the officials, received a bunch of “gifts” in addition to reducing the price – for free we gave a coaxial chimney, a filter with a pressure gauge for the heating system, a filter for the water supply system and a wired room thermostat. And another 10 (instead of the usual five) years of warranty)
2. Polypropylene pipes reinforced with fiberglass, of various sections. (20.25 & 32mm)
3. Fittings for them.
4. Collectors (“combs”) for “warm floor”.
5. Radiators. (Steel, panel, type 22. I took inexpensive Russian-made Prado. There was a choice between them and Lidea. Let one of the regulars of this site forgive me, but they dissuaded me from Lidskys. They said that the Russian ones are better. Although … Perhaps, as usual, the stereotype “Its own is bad, imported is good!”)))))
6. Thermostatic heads with valves for radiators. (In my case – “DANFOSS”. Far from cheap, but tested by me, the same. Excellent work for me for about 15 years without a single complaint)
7. Thermostatic RTLheads with underfloor heating valves. (“Herz”. Also reliable products)
8. Three-way valve with an RTL head with a remote temperature sensor. (Also “Herz”)
9. Sanitary seals (Flax. Paste “Unipak”)
10. Thermal insulation for pipes of different diameters.
I started by laying pipes in the walls. As I already said, the walls in the house are very thick, and I made a “encircling” line in the outer walls of such dimensions that a 32 mm PPR pipe would be hidden in it, hidden in a polyethylene foam insulation:
I determined the height from the floor so that the combs could be placed a little lower, and, at the same time, upward, above them, you can make bends for the side connection of the radiator. I decided to place all this “household” in each room under the windows, for which niches were cut down under the windowsills, 150mm deep:
I laid the “return” in the floor at the stage of making the “pie” of warm floors.
Let me remind you that the heating I made floor slabs last year, as I wrote about here in this article .
Since the floor will be the main heating element in my system, I did not calculate the power of the radiators. I just bought radiators of the size that would fit in the niches after the floor controls were located there. I chose inexpensive, Russian-made radiators. They are of the 22nd type, and, according to rough estimates, all the same, despite their small size, they will be able to independently (without the help of the floor) heat the rooms in which they are installed.
To control the radiators, I used thermostatic valve taps manufactured by” DANFOSS “, which are famous for their reliability.
I will explain the principle of their work, in case someone did not delve into it … The head turns to the desired division, and when the air temperature in the room reaches the set one, it turns off the tap and the radiator stops heating! As soon as the room temperature drops, the head opens the tap again.
Correspondence of temperature to a specific division on the head for each room is established empirically.
But I started with the installation not of radiators, but of control elements for underfloor heating. In some rooms I had two pipe circuits, in some – three. To connect them in parallel, the following collectors (“combs”) were purchased
The method of laying pipes in the floor, which I described in the previous article, allowed me to achieve the identical length and shape of all contours. Due to this, the hydrodynamic flow resistance in all circuits can be conventionally considered the same. That is why such a system does not need balancing, which allowed me to use such inexpensive collectors equipped only with shut-off ball valves.
Let me explain for those who are “not in the subject”. Usually, in conditions when the contours are laid out by hired workers, they cannot afford such a “luxury” as an increase in the time of work execution several times. (After all, payment is made per square meter, and not per days!))). Therefore, they lay out the pipe “in fact”, as a result of which, the contours differ in length and shape to a very large extent! When such a system is started, not the entire floor is heated, but only the section where the circuit has the least resistance to flow! The coolant, after all, there is no need to squeeze into difficult areas – it flows through the easiest!)). Such a system needs balancing! It is necessary to “press down” some contours in order to equalize the resistance. For this, the collectors are equipped not only with shut-off ball valves, but with valve ones that allow smooth flow regulation, which increases their cost !!! But in this case, this work takes a lot of time – the system is inert and slowly changes the temperature! The tuner has to do this for several days – he measured the temperature of the “return”, “pressed down” the hottest one, came the next day, measured the temperature of the return, “pressed” again, or “let go”, came again the next evening, checked … , again, it goes “for the fact”, and not for the time, then hired plumbers include in the estimate collectors equipped not only with valves on the return, but also with flow meters on the supply! Now it is easy for them to set up everything – looking at the flow meters, use the valves to “output” the same values to them !! The whole work takes fifteen minutes … If not for one “but”. Such a “comb” is very expensive. (That the mercenary does not care, because the customer pays for the materials))). For example, my comb for three circuits cost me about $ 30, while a similar one, but with valves and flow meters, cost $ 180 !!! Multiply this difference by the number of collectors in your home – this is the amount of money you will pay to make your plumbing easier and easier to set up the system! ))))
The collectors were fixed in niches under the windows and the contours of the warm floor were connected to them.
Floor temperature control in each room will be carried out, as I have already mentioned, with such cranes with so-called RTL-heads.
These taps were installed on the return line and their peculiarity is that they react not to the air temperature, but to the temperature of the coolant flowing through them! … The hot coolant, under the action of the circulation pump, passing through the main, through the outlet enters the comb, passes through the floor contours and heats it. When the floor has warmed up, and the coolant, passing through the pipes in it, does not give off heat to the concrete, but reaches the tap hot, the head immediately closes the tap and locks the coolant inside the floor. Since the collectors are connected to the mains in parallel, the circulation stops only in the floor of this room! And this lasts until the temperature of the coolant in the floor drops by those few fractions of a degree, which the head did not have enough to leave the tap open! The tap opens again, a new portion of the hot coolant enters the floor. and the cooled one is forced out into the return and goes into the boiler for heating.
These are the nodes that were collected in niches under the windows. Over time, when it comes to finishing work, I will simply make the walls of drywall there, and insert plastic doors into them for access, since now there is a huge selection of such accessories. In this case, only the heads of the radiator thermostats will remain outside, which need to “feel” the air temperature in the room. That is why they were mounted “sticking out to the side”.))):
In the kitchen, I decided not to install radiators at all, but to do only with underfloor heating! I was guided by the fact that, firstly, there will be either ceramic or vinyl tiles as a floor finish. Both of these materials have a fairly high thermal conductivity and are able to give off a large amount of heat to the air. Secondly, the kitchen is not a “place of permanent residence”, therefore, if you have to make the floor noticeably warm in order to maintain a comfortable temperature, it will not cause such discomfort as in the bedroom or in the living room .. And thirdly, in the kitchen there is no furniture that blocks convection flows. Indeed, unlike a sofa, or a bed, from under the table, and stools, it will still “warm”. And in places where the kitchen unit will be located directly, I did not lay out the contours initially. Just in case, I decided to lay the pipe in the kitchen more tightly, with a smaller step, and under the window where the supply and return lines pass, make “blind” bends, leave them inside the walls, having previously recorded the exact location from the landmarks. In case it turns out that the floor is still not enough for me, I can, having slightly gouged the wall in two places (a weak lime mortar of grade 10), crash into the highways and hang a radiator under the window.)))
Unfortunately, this reasoning happened to me when the collectors were already purchased))). And the tightening of the kitchen contours led to the addition of one more! But fooled with the sale of a three-seater collector and the purchase of a four-seater, I did not! I just threw out the end caps in the manifold, replacing them with sleeves, and screwed in the corner fittings, which represent a transition from metal-plastic to a threaded connection. Thus, I added another circuit to the manifold. This can be seen in the photo (sorry for the butt!))))):
< img class = "aligncenter" alt = "Heating system of a private house with your own hands" src = "https://usamodelkina.ru/uploads/posts/2021-01/1609585272_img_20201230_172950.jpg"/> Separately becoming one solution. As I said, I made a so-called dead-end system. This is when the coolant, reaching the final room, unfolds. That is, the circulation in the supply and return flows in opposite directions.
Considering that maintaining a comfortable temperature I get fully automated by thermostatic valves, one cannot exclude such a moment as the simultaneous operation of all valves in the system! Indeed, in reality, the whole house can warm up, and at some point the last of the open valves can close! What plumbers call a “system plug” will happen. The circulation of the heating medium will stop! The pump continues to pump, but there is nowhere to pump! … The boiler will simply give an error and “go into an accident”. You will need to reset the error and restart the boiler!
I asked several experienced plumbers if there was such a problem, and how to deal with it? .. It turns out, yes, there really is such a problem, if thermostats are widely used, and they simply struggle with it – they connect the heated towel rail in the bathroom of such a house directly , without the possibility of adjustment, or shutdown! If all thermostats are triggered, the “plugging” will not happen – there will be circulation through the heated towel rail …
… The solution, of course, is simple … But we are not looking for easy ways! I did not like this decision for several reasons: First, I would like to leave the possibility of adjusting the temperature of the heated towel rail! After all, he is also a radiator! It is possible that it will sometimes be too hot in a small bathroom. I have it not very small (As for a bathroom. 9 square meters), but there will also be a tiled floor with good heat dissipation and forty meters of pipe under it! And my wife demanded a large heated towel rail. “Ladder” measuring 60 x 100 cm with many rungs. The specification indicated that it can act as a heating device for a room up to 8 square meters. Considering the main heating as well, I thought that “always roasting to full” heated towel rail was not the best solution.
Secondly, due to the peculiarities of the layout, my bathroom is located next to the kitchen where the boiler will be located. That is, located first, in a parallel chain, a heated towel rail connected without control valves can greatly weaken the hydrodynamic pressure in the system and it may not be enough to “push” four hundred meters of pipes in the floor!
And I came up with another solution …
To control the supply of coolant to the floors of the same “dead-end” room, I purchased a so-called three-way valve from the same manufacturer:
As can be seen from the diagram on his body, blocking the passage of the liquid, he, at the same time, opens another passage for it. To control it, I purchased a thermo-static head with a remote sensor:
Unlike the previous rooms, in this one I placed the valve not on the return line, but on the supply to the manifold. And the sensor is located on the lower cylinder of the collector, to which the floor return pipes are connected. For this, the kit even included a special aluminum bar, which serves as a “bed” for the sensor, and ensures its tight fit to the collector, and two clamps. The photo of the sensor is not visible – it is located at the back. Between it and the supply pipes, I placed a piece of insulation folded in several layers (blue) so that the sensor does not heat up from hot supply pipes, but only reacts to the return pipe, to which it is fixed with clamps through an aluminum gasket using thermal paste:
As you can see in the photo, the coolant, when the tap is open, is supplied to the floor. When the return temperature rises to the value set on the head, and it receives this information from the sensor, through a capillary tube (its surplus, wound in a spiral, is visible in the photo), the head will close the flow, while directing the flow downward into the return through the bypass. No “plug” will happen. The hot coolant will simply return to the boiler, which will turn off the burner, “realizing” that it does not need to heat anything))))
All these works, I slowly did in the evenings for a whole year. Finally, everything was ready, and I hung up the boiler and proceeded to “strapping” it. < img class = "aligncenter" alt = "Heating system of a private house with your own hands" src = "https://usamodelkina.ru/uploads/posts/2020-12/1609016499_dsc_0007.jpg"/> This word plumbers denote supply pipes to all boiler fittings.
The word “boiler”, in my opinion, in relation to modern units, is also “atavism”.))))
After all, a “boiler” is something that simply heats the water. Modern units, in addition to heating the coolant in the heating system, have several more functions – they also contain an expansion tank of the heating system, air vent automation, a circulation pump and a control system for it, as well as an automatic flow-through heating circuit for hot water supply and temperature control system in both circuits. Also, the unit itself provides a forced removal of exhaust gases outside the room and provides the burner with air. So, this is more likely not a “boiler”, but a “mini-boiler room”.))))
Having looked at many options “live”, I saw many solutions. As well as a huge number of mistakes …. Although I am not an expert, but such rough “jambs” as the installation of a coarse filter (the so-called “oblique filter” or “sump”) on a vertical pipe through which the coolant is fed up, I met very, very often!
This filter is:
As you can see from its device, it simply won't work when installed vertically !!! Moreover, it is usually installed without shut-off valves !!! (Ie, its cleaning is simply not provided?))))
In two cases, I saw this installation after another so-called “self-cleaning” filter:
This already completely “into any gate” … Because self-cleaning is designed to filter out the finer fraction …
The second, common mistake is the installation of taps “with an American” without thinking … I saw all the taps on one boiler “out of order” – some collapsible to the pipes, others to the boiler.
The fact that these gross mistakes I met very often, confirmed my suspicions that most of the “craftsmen” design the piping of the boiler on the basis that “I was taught that this filter is necessary”, not understanding how it all really works.
And I decided not ask for advice, but, based on what you see, draw your own conclusions and collect everything not “as advised”, but as I see fit.
(I will draw your attention to the fact that I do not consider all of the following to be the only correct one. If you find what I am wrong, be sure to inform and justify!)
I decided to install the valves on the boiler fittings to the pipes by the Americans! Despite the fact that professional plumbers say that they were taught to always be put by American women not to pipes, but to the device !!!
I will explain my decision. If the “device” is, for example, a radiator, or a collector, then it is more correct as they were taught! Because, with such an installation, it is possible, in case of an accident, to turn off the tap and remove the device for repair or replacement. In this case, the locked valve will remain on the pipe, and the rest of the system will be able to work.
And if the “device” is a boiler ??? The system, in case of malfunction, will have to be stopped in any case !!! (Yes, she will stop herself)))) And when you try to dismantle the boiler, all the coolant will pour out of it, if the taps remain on the pipes! And after all, it contains not only burners and pumps, but also an expansion tank !!! And the boiler, as for example, in my case, is located in the kitchen set !!! and you can't put a bucket in there !!! No matter how hard you try, you will get a stream of almost ten liters of coolant directly into your furniture !!!
But if we put them on the contrary, then, in the same case, we can relieve pressure from the system, turn off the taps, and, without draining the system, dismantle the boiler !!! The taps (locked) will remain on it – nothing will spill out of the heat exchangers and the expansion tank! From the chimney – too, because the boiler hangs high! Without pressure from a pipe located vertically, with an end at the highest point, there is simply nothing to pour!))))
And, although, despite such explanations, the plumbers have already told me several times that this is not correct, I mounted just like that!
Cranes used angular. As already mentioned, the boiler will subsequently be built into the kitchen set. And I decided to move the pipes as close as possible to the wall, which will make it possible to cover them with some kind of decorative screen, without making a solid pencil case! I did not dare to hide them in the wall – it would greatly complicate the repair, in case of an accident …
I decided to place the rest of the “harness” below, no higher than 80 centimeters from the floor. I was guided by the fact that the height of the working surface (the lower kitchen cabinet) is 85 cm!
There I also have a water inlet and a water meter unit
I also made it removable and connected to the system using a detachable connection:
Before feeding the DHW circuit of the boiler, I installed a filter with magnetic cartridge to protect the secondary heat exchanger:
By the way, brown is not rust from water! For some reason, the filter cartridge acquired this color when wetted.)))
Before the filter, I made a “tap just in case”.))) From it it will be possible, for example, to power a dishwasher. Or make a fireman “mini-hydrant” by connecting the sleeve and placing it in a locker in the quick access zone.
DHW pipes that go to and from the boiler, I installed shut-off valves.
By shutting off the water supply to the apartment and closing the blue tap, you can change the cartridge in the filter.
The red tap serves to turning off the hot water supply to the entire apartment. Let there be such a function, in spite of the fact that I have provided brass shut-off ball valves at each point of the draw-off.
I used welded polypropylene taps only where I will rarely use them. In addition to this place, I used them as shut-off in case of an accident in front of collectors and before water supply to the street:
I decided not to install an “oblique filter” on the return pipe of the heating system at all! I have a new system. After installation, rinsed very thoroughly! Closed system! Filled through the filter! There is simply no place to get dirt there !!! Only a self-cleaning filter is installed on the return line:
Its peculiarity is that if, when the pump is off, you unscrew the fitting at the bottom, the water in the system under pressure is supplied from the side opposite to its movement under the action of the circulation pump and flushes the filter screens …
While doing all this, I simply did not know a lot, due to the lack of any experience.))) For example, I was not sure that the boiler's circulation pump would provide good circulation without an additional pump. “Pros” said who what!))) Some – “Yes, he will push, do not even think!”, Others – “What are you! Not enough of him, of course!” Therefore, in order not to embed a pump into the system, the need for which is in question, I have provided just a “place for it”. To do this, I have provided for a vertical pipe section on the return pipeline, near the outlet, which, if necessary, can be replaced by a circulation pump and a bypass with a tap:
I do the pump , then I'll deliver. But, for a completely different reason.)))
Staff copes “with a bang.” But, sometimes the following situation arises: in one room, the floor valve is triggered. The heat carrier in the floor is locked and begins to cool down, warming up the floor. It takes a while. And so, when it remains a little to cool down until the thermostatic head of the tap is triggered, it sometimes coincides that in all the other rooms the thermostats also work, the return becomes hot and the boiler stops. After a while, he turns off the pump. And a second later, the valve opens in that “earliest” room. But the pump does not work, and the cooled coolant remains in the floor! And the floor in this room continues to cool! After all, even though the coolant in it is already colder than in the entire system, it does not enter the system (the pump does not work). And this lasts until the entire return flow cools down and the boiler turns on. During this time, the floor can cool down by another 4-5 degrees. It will stop feeling warm! That is why I want to insert a weak additional pump into the system and power it from the reverse contacts of the relay – let it start when the main one stops! Then the system will have a constant, albeit weak, circulation, and even with a “sleeping” boiler, the cooled coolant will come out of the floor of this room and will be replaced by a hot one. The floor temperature won't drop! And adding cold water to the return flow will “wake up” the boiler.
Well, actually, that's all …
And … I will also inform you that the boiler was powered through a voltage regulator … This, by and large, is not required .. But “God protects” The system was put into operation about a month ago. To date, in addition to the above error with the pump operation, no negative points have been found. Everything works correctly. Type 22 radiators work very powerfully. If you want to quickly warm up the room, the thermostat turns and the temperature in the room rises very quickly! Apparently, the effect is that, thanks to the heated floors, the air temperature does not have a big difference “vertically” – the air near the floor is also warmed up and it is much easier for the radiator to “warm up” it.
The heating floor slabs have a high heat capacity – at the first start-up, the boiler worked continuously for several hours. After that, it turns on very rarely and works for about ten minutes. Once I turned it off completely for a day (I worked with electrical wiring). True, then we did not have frost – the temperature outside was +2 … + 4, but during the day the temperature in the room dropped from 20 to 15 degrees. Earlier, in the same conditions, when heating [url = hhttps: //usamodelkina.ru/17044-otopitelnaja-pech-iz-kolesnyh-diskov-i-tormoznogo-barabana.htmlttp: //] wood stove [/url] the temperature dropped from twenty in one night to seven or eight degrees.
And finally. I posted the video presented here, and a lot of negative comments appeared on other resources. If you do not pay attention to those that boil down to the fact that “no one does this” (at the same time, without explaining what exactly is wrong, and, most importantly, how to do it?), Then the bulk of the condemnations for the fact that ” You moron! You can do it much easier and cheaper! Why do you need to regulate in each room? ” )))
Dear comrades! I HAD NO GOAL to make it easier and cheaper !!! The goal was to make it compact and CONVENIENT !!! And I don’t want to consider options in which the regulation of each heating device in each room is excluded!
Therefore, do not offer this. Film I will be glad to other comments. I will listen and consider what exactly could have been done differently.
Hello, dear visitors of the site “Visiting Samodelkin “. Today I want to talk about how I made a heating system in a private house that I am reconstructing.